Dampness

September 14, 2006 · Filed Under Italy, Milan · Comment

It’s raining in Milan today. This could mean an end to the fantastic September weather which we had been having. Shame, but at least I’ll stop overheating.

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Speeding, and other traffic fines in Italy

September 14, 2006 · Filed Under Speeding fines · 355 Comments

PLEASE READ THIS:

I would like to underline that I do not suggest or condone the non-payment of fines. If I did, I would probably end up in big trouble here, and seeing as I live, work and have family here, I would like to avoid such a situation. If, by chance, someone has read this post, the comments and then decided not to pay, then do not blame me if you end up with problems as a result. Any and all advice I have provided to others has been and is provided informally - I am not an authority, and have not made any claim to be. For conclusive advice on the payment of traffic fines received as a result of a trip abroad, I recommend contacting motoring organisations, embassies or the police in your country of origin.

Sorry about the legalish stuff, but I thought covering my back may not be such a bad idea. You never know nowadays and this blog is public (Indeed, I have now been lucky enough to have been accused of being a scammer, I am not, but see the comments below and make up your own mind.) Now you can read the main post.. and the comments!

Speeding, and other traffic fines in Italy

I had a contact via this blog from some people (And I hope they don’t mind my mentioning this situation, but I do think it needs mentioning) who have, in a sense, come face to face with the black side of European unity, in that these people found an Italian speeding fine, written in Italian, lying on their English doormat after the postman had done his thing.

John Folkard, one of the many who have been caught out by the restricted traffic zone in Piza, posted something about the problem on the travel tips message boards of the UK newspaper the Daily Telegraph.

Check out my updates to this post, but please do try to read everything and the comments, yes, I know there are lots of them:

SCROLL DOWN TO SEE UPDATES and YET ANOTHER UPDATE, May 2007, for more info on Pisa, and
look at One more update - 18/09/2007, for some potentially interesting info.

20th May 2007: SUGGESTION: If you wish, you can tell me where (Place, street, time, date) you got your fine and I will add it to the Platial Map system. I’d also like to post photos of the restricted traffic zone signs to help others avoid falling into the same trap.

Have a look at this more recent post: Speed Cameras in Italy

It will help you to know what you need to look out for and where the cameras are.

Although, regretfully, it may be too late for many who arrive here, I’ve also written a post entitled:
How to Avoid Fines while Staying in Italy

I’ll try to keep both posts up to date, so check back here from time to time

How can you deal with a fine you receive after a stay in Italy?

Now just how do you deal with a traffic fine which you got while you were on holiday in Italy? Well, if you are (un)lucky enough to find a nice little fine stuck on your car windscreen (watch where you leave you car - street cleaning occurs over-night and if any cars are in the way, they get a nice fine - I speak from experience…) while you are in Italy you can simply take it to a local post office and pay it. End of story. Similarly if the police happen to stop and fine you, they too (I believe) will give you a nice little document which can be paid at any Italian post office and many cigarette shops too. This means that as long as you have the time to get to a post office you can sort the fine out quite easily.

A thing called a ‘Casuale‘ (a sort of traffic offence reference number), which is usually written on the fine, provides information with regard to the date that you were caught, the registration of the car you were in and other things, the meaning of which I am not so sure. You should also find the bank account number into which the fine should be paid.

OK, so basically if you get a fine while you are in Italy, you have a sporting chance of paying it at a post office.

What happens though, when the fine drops through your letterbox after you have returned from your hols/business trip in Italy? Well, you should pay the fine, the question is ‘how’. This is where the problems start.

Assuming you are able to understand that the document written in Italian is indeed a fine (I cannot wait until Hungarian police start sending out fines to foreigners!!), the next step would be to work out what to do next. You could just hop on a plane and pop into the post office nearest to the airport at which you have landed, but this is not really practical. Or you could try to discover what you need to do. This is where the fun starts. First, who do you ring? Good question. You do speak Italian don’t you? No? Ah, well, this means, logically, that most people would find it difficult to communicate with the Italian police, assuming you know which one of the three types of police force you should contact. (Answer: The Polizia Municipale, generally if the fine is a minor parking/restricted traffic area matter, not the ‘Polizia’ - the Polizia Municipale and the Polizia are different organisations).

Other Sources of Information/assistance

How about searching on the web? I tried this and did not find anything easily. The DVLA? I searched on their website and got 70 rather unhelpful search results after looking for ‘Speeding fines, Europe’.

The British consulate here in Milan said to phone 0044 8702400009. This, I imagine would be the best course of action, although I have not rung, so I do not know how much help it can be.

The AA or the RAC may be of some help too. Oh, and if you are not someone from a country in the EC, then I really do not know what you could do, if they even bother sending fines to people in non-European countries, that is.

I’m sure plenty of tourists manage to end up being snapped by one of the ever increasing number of speed and/or restricted traffic zone cameras here, so you would imagine that finding information as to how to deal with these things would be quite easy. This is not the case, or so it would seem.

I would love someone to indicate where information on this matter can be easily found. Many people would find it useful.

You could just send me your fine plus the amount due and 100 Euros, let’s say, and I’ll deal with it;-) Any takers?……No, thought not!!

UPDATE:

From 2007, apparently, the DVLA in the UK will receive any fines you have collected in the EC and send them to your home address. They will be in English, but you won’t get points on your UK licence as a result. This is part of a new reciprocal arrangement. It will simplify matters, but means you will not be able to get away with not paying by using the excuse that it was in another language and so I could not understand whether it was a fine or not.

Informally, I am not sure as to what lengths the Italian authorities would actually go in order to deal with non-payment. Current passport checks for those entering Italy from EU are quite cursory, although you could expect problems if you had not paid a fine and then went to stay in the same area of Italy once again, in view of the fact that hotels are required to supply local police with copies of passports. Of course if you receive a fine by way of your countries traffic authorities for an offence in Italy, then non-payment will probably be dealt with in that country.

ANOTHER UPDATE, January 2007(which is the same as a follow-up to this post):

It’s official, the article in the Telegraph I read while I was in the UK would seem to indicate that Europe-wide traffic fines will shortly be with us. The same article is available on-line here. Although this change comes into effect in March 2007, as some who have read this blog will have noticed, the UK DVLA has already been giving out the addresses of offenders to the Italian authorities so they can send victims a nice little fine.

For some not exactly clear reason a number of people who have left comments on my blog have been ending up with fines for traffic offences whilst driving through Pisa. If you happen to find yourself there in the near future, watch out, because the area into which certain cars are not allowed does not seem to be well signposted.

YET ANOTHER UPDATE, May 2007

Restricted Traffic Zones in Pisa

Pisa - I have found and read the bye-law, that came into effect on the 3 August 2005, which sets up the restricted traffic area in Pisa.

There are four zones:

Zone A - S.Francesco;

Via Carmignani - Piazza San Francesco – Vicolo del Poschi – Via degli Orafi – Via Cavour – Via
Case Dipinte – Via Santa Cecilia – Via Battichiodi – Via Calafati – Via Guido da Pisa – Via Palestro
– Via Beccaria – Via Fucini - Piazza S. Paolo all’Orto – Via Vernaccini – Via Coccapani – Via
Sant’Andrea – Piazza D’Ancona – Via San Francesco (da Via S. Cecilia a Via Sighieri) – Vicolo del
Ruschi – Via V. Berlinghieri – Via delle Belle Torri – Piazza Cairoli - Via San Pierino Via del Teatro
– Via Traversa – Via della Scuola – Via del Cuore – Via della Palla a Corda – Via San Lorenzo –
Via Carducci (numeri civici pari Lato Est) – Via E. Sighieri – via De Simone (porzione fisicamente
delimitata) - Via M. Lalli (tratto Via Di Simone/Via Sighieri) – Via G. Giusti – Via S. Bibbiana – Via
delle Maioliche – Piazza della Repubblica – Via Gereschi – Via del Buschetto – Piazza Martiri della
Libertà – Via Mercanti (da Via Case Dipinte a Piazza S. Paolo all’Orto) – Via Verdi – Via del
Giardino – Via Toscanelli – Vicolo Rimediotti – Piazza San Luca – Piazza Mazzini.

Zone B S.Maria;

Via del Collegio Ricci – Via della Sapienza – Via Serafini – Via San Simone – Via Notari –
Via delle Donzelle – Via delle Colonne – Vicolo del Vigna – Piazza delle Vettovaglie – Piazza S.
Omobono – Vicolo del Porton Rosso – Vicolo del Tidi – Via della Croce Rossa – Via Cavalca –
Vicolo S. Margherita – Via Tavoleria – Via del Castelletto – Via San Frediano – Via Consoli del
Mare - via Carducci (numeri civici dispari Lato Ovest) – Via S. Apollonia - Piazza Giordano da
Rivalto – Via San Giuseppe - Via San Tommaso – Via Martiri – Via Capponi – Via Dalmazia – Via
della Faggiola – Via Leopardi – Via Don G. Boschi – Piazza Cavallotti – Via Risorti – Via Collegio
Ferdinando – Via Galvani – Piazza Torricelli – Via Santa Maria (da piazza del Duomo a Via S.
Nicola) – Via Roma (da piazza del Duomo a Via Savi) - Via Porta Buozzi – Via Luca Ghini – Via
della Pergola - Via Trento – Via Volta – Via Santa Lucia – Piazza Locchi – Via Ricucchi – Via
Buongusto – Via Canto del Nicchio – Via Galli Tassi – Via dei Mille – Piazza Buonamici – Via
Corsica – Piazza dei Cavalieri – Via U. Dini – Piazza San Felice – Piazza Donati – Via Oberdan –
via Calducci - Via Consoli del Mare- Via San Frediano – Via Serafini - Via della Sapienza – Via
San Frediano - Via Curtatone e Montanara –- Via del Porton Rosso – Vicolo del Vigna – Piazza
delle Vettovaglie – Vicolo delle Donzelle –– Vicolo Margherita – Vicolo Quarantotti– Via delle 7
Volte – Via P. Paoli -–– Piazza Arcivescovado – Via Corta

Zone C S.Antonio;

Via Mazzini - Via Garofani – Via Titta Ruffo – Piazza dei Grilletti (porzione Lato Sud) – Via
dell’Occhio – Piazza Facchini - Via Toselli – Via delle Belle Donne – Via del Cappello – Via
Sant’Antonio - Via Alberto Mario - Via San Paolo – Vicolo del Tozzi – Vicolo Mecherini – Vicolo
dell’Annunziata – Via Ricciardi – Via delle Conce – Via del Lante – Via San Cosimo – Via del
Borgundio – Via Somari – Via La Maddalena – Via Scardigli – Via San Lorenzino – Via del
Cottolengo – Via Balduinetti – Via Porta Dolfi – Via del Galloro – Via della Qualquonia – Via
Carabottaia – Via D’Azeglio – Via Manzoni - Via Zandonai – Piazza Saffi.

Zone D S.Martino

Via Ceci – Via Giordano Bruno, Via Sancasciani – Via Gori – Via Turati – Via del Carmine – Via
San Bernardo (fino a Vicolo dell’Oro) – Via Kinzica de’ Sismondi – Via San Martino (fino a Vicolo
del Moro) – Vicolo del Moro – Via La Foglia – Vicolo Scaramucci – Vicolo Rosselmini – Vicolo
dell’Oro – Piazza San Martino – Vicolo Mozzo - Piazza del Crocifisso – Via La Tinta – Via Silvestri
– Via Lanfranchi – Vicolo da Scorno – Via Flaminio dal Borgo – Piazza San Sepolcro – Piazza
Maria Clari – Vicolo Mossotti – Via Franceschi – Vicolo Borghese – Piazza C. Gambacorti – Via La
Pera – Vicolo del Torti – Vicolo degli Albiani – Via San Lorenzino – Via Pascoli – Corte San
Domenico A-B-C-D - Via Bovio - Via di Fortezza.

If you have been caught out in Pisa, then check and see whether the street mentioned on your fine is one of those mentioned above. This will also help you to check that your fine is genuine and not some sophisticated scam. As an aside, this bye-law appears to make no allowance for people with bookings accessing hotels in the city centre, despite making quite a few other exceptions. This means that catching out foreigners is a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. A novel new way of extracting cash from tourists - sort of a secondary income stream, if you like. Look out for those warning signs - which should be all over the place, theoretically.

Restricted traffic zone road sign

Below you can see an example of a restricted traffic zone road sign. This sign is in Milan, but it should be similar to the signs used throughout Italy. The top section specifies the hours during which the restriction is in force, (7:30am to 9:00pm) and the bottom sections, in this case refer to loading and unloading restrictions and the length of vehicles allowed to enter the zone. If someone photographs similar signs in Pisa or elsewhere - leave a comment and I’ll get back to you with details of where to send the images so I can publish them here, if anyone would find this useful.

Fines received after visiting Pisa

This article which I’ve recently prepared, should help a little:

How To Pay Pisa Traffic Violations

Fines received after being in Rome

Information about paying fines received while in Rome, from the Rome Council site:

Call Rome 060606
One number, a whole city

060606 is the telephone number to call for information on the services provided by the City of Rome.
The service is available in English from Monday to Saturday, from 4pm to 7pm.

18/09/2007 One more update - time limits regarding the notification of offenders

OK, I’ve had a look into this time limits thing a bit more and from what I can make out from the Italian Automobile Club site here.

There is indeed, as Sean commented below, a time limit of 150 days for the notification of the fine, if the individual committing the violation is resident in Italy. This limit extends to 360 days for individuals committing violations who are not resident in Italy, however, these time limits run from as soon as the actual offender has been identified:

Time Limits

In Italian from the Italian Automobile Club site: La Corte Costituzionale, con sentenza 198/1996, ha stabilito che il termine dei 150 giorni, nel caso in cui l’identificazione dell’effettivo trasgressore avvenga successivamente rispetto al momento in cui la violazione è stata commessa, decorre dalla data in cui l’autorità è in grado di identificarlo. -
My translation: Decision 198/1996 of the Constitutional Court established that the 150 (360 - for non-Italian residents) day period in situations in which the identification of the actual offender is subsequent to the moment in which the violation occurred shall run from the date the authority is able to identify such offender.

It appears that the 360 day period starts running from as soon as the police have been advised by the car rental company, friend, etc, who you are, so this means presumably that the police must then send you a fine within this 360 day period, otherwise it is no longer valid.

By the way, the car rental company, friend etc have 60 days to advise the police that they were not driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.

My understanding is that if you have directly received fine documentation that is in your name, you then need to know when the rental company got round to telling the police who you are and then add 360 days to this date so you can check by when the police should send you the fine. If it clearly turns out that more than 360 days has passed, you probably do not have to pay.

In summary:

The offence is committed by someone driving a car that is registered in Italy - the police then have 150 days to notify the car owner.

Car owner then has 60 days to tell the police that the driver was foreign and to supply details of the driver.

The police have 360 days to send the fine to the offending driver.

Let’s assume that the fine arrives at the hire company (or car owner) after 149 days. Then the car owner tells the police that the driver who committed the offence was foreign after 59 days. The police then send out a fine to the foreign driver that arrives after 359 days. This means that the total time elapsed from the offence is 149 + 59 + 359 which equals 567 days. The driver then has 60 days to either pay or dispute the fine or the amount of the fine increases.

What remains unclear is how the Italian police/authorities can prove that they notified you within the 360 time limit. Registered post may be one option, and if you receive a fine by normal post, then you could, in theory and I am not saying that you should do this, simply throw it away and deny any knowledge of it. Things certainly get lost in the post here in Italy - I can attest to this.

If anyone would like to corroborate my interpretation, then please do. I have tried to wade though the Italian law on this, but did not manage to find all the relevant sections, subsections, commas, and/or subsequent modifications to same. Sorry. But you can have a look here to start with, if you can read Italian:
Article 201 - Notification of Violations.

20/02/2008 UPDATE to time limits

Thanks to information provided by Rusty in his comments, it appears as though the authorities have two years to collect fines, but I don’t know when the two year period starts, or when this limitation came into effect.

Whether you decide to sit this period out and see what happens, is up to you, but those in the European Union should perhaps watch out for reciprocal fine collection agreements.

If I come across any more information, I’ll post it here. Sorry I did not cotton on to this before, but, as I now have to point out - I am not an expert on this. If you know someone who is, please, oh, please let me know, and I mention this expert here.

29/09/2007 UPDATE:

This issue has been discussed on several forums: